The Benefits of Intergenerational Communication: A Chat with WI-HER’s Sandra Bunch and Elizabeth Kemigisha

If we want to close the generational divide, opening a dialogue to discuss our differences—and find our commonalities—is critical. In honor of Intergenerational Week, WI-HER’s Knowledge Management Associate Elizabeth Kemigisha (Kemmy) sat down with WI-HER’s Director, Strategic Growth and Partnerships Sandra Bunch to talk through some of the issues that cut across generational divides, as well as what the different generations can learn from one another.

During this insightful conversation, the pair discussed everything from what our work in workforce development teaches us, social isolation, AI & technology, mentorship, and the importance of intentionality. “I think that’s just really the key part, that we just have to be super intentional about wanting to learn from each other,” Sandra Bunch shared with Kemmy.

Listen in to the full conversation here, and share with us on social media your key takeaways.

Full transcript of the conversation between Elizabeth Kemigisha (EK) and Sandra Bunch (SB)

EK: Hello. This is Elizabeth Kemigisha from WI-HER. Next week, the UK and other countries are going to be celebrating the Intergenerational week, and they’re looking at seeking to understand and celebrate how different generations come together to share knowledge, to learn. And so, at WI-HER, we thought it would be a wonderful opportunity for us to take this chance to also discuss issues around knowledge sharing for different generations, what does it look like, social isolation, and also intergenerational conversations within the workspace. So, I’m joined by Sandra [Bunch], who is with WI-HER as part of our leadership team and looking at strategic growth and partnerships, and so we are going to have this discussion.

SB: Yes, and it’s so interesting to be on the older side of the generational divide!

EK: Yeah, and to see how the two generations—our generations that we’re representing—how and what we think. We’re really sharing our thoughts and opinions on different things, so we shall jump right in.

SB: Sure.

EK: In what ways do you think intergenerational knowledge sharing can benefit workplaces like WI-HER as well as the communities that we serve?

SB: I mean, I think, in some ways, it’s obvious, right? More experienced generations are able to share their actual experiences, and with that, the knowledge just comes from living and seeing change. I think when I look back, that’s one of the things—because I remember my 20-year-old self very well—sometimes I’m shocked at how quickly time goes by. But it’s one of the things that when I think back on some of the things that have changed, part of that is an awareness of how long change can take. In the moment, as its happening, sometimes it feels like its not happening fast enough, right?

So when I think about what we really bring as we bring generations together, the strength of it is we have that energy and drive that is coming from a lot of our younger people, who are still really optimistic, and they have so many great ideas, and they’re still taking risks and trying to really push things. And I think, for better or for worse, part of what comes with age is an awareness is that sometimes it doesn’t pay off, and sometimes there can be lessons learned with that—that there can be a lot of failure in change, and some of it is more costly than others.

So there is a kind of slowing down, and more questioning, more assessing, and with that, kind of more cautious moving forward.

I think we balance each other because it’s important to make sure that we’re not moving too slowly or too cautiously but also sometimes it’s important to make sure we’re not running forward too fast and shaking things up too much, and in that process hurting people we don’t intend to hurt.

EK: I think when you talk about learning for me, I think intergenerational knowledge sharing holds space for unlearning on both sides. So what our realities could be now for the younger generation, when you sit someone from another generation, you are able to unlearn quickly, and say you know what, maybe I don’t go in that direction, maybe we can do things different because, you’ve seen, like you’ve been saying, you have seen and you learned, just a quick example on change taking time.

For us, we want to change, and we want it now. So that space for unlearning, but also a space for learning. I mean who doesn’t want to get the insight? Yeah, but also for the older generation to also learn from us, the younger generation that, you know, to see things like technology, but also the risk taking that you’re talking about, to do things differently. So I think intergenerational knowledge sharing holds space for that.

I also think that it allows for us to have wisdom for new things, because of that applied knowledge that the older generation has, and they’re able to give new things that level of perspective. But also, for the younger generation they are able to critique, to say, ‘You did this, but that won’t work now.’ Or, you did this, maybe you missed something like this. So I think it’s beautiful in that sense that, you know, those things can happen. Have you noticed any differences or perspectives towards work between generations?

SB: I think the answer is yes, but it’s not necessarily a bad thing. I mean norms change and obviously technology is changing us quickly. We all know that so many of us went remote with Covid. I know at WI-HER, we were already remote, so there wasn’t quite as much shifting happening.

But when I think about when I first entered the workforce, there were these expectations even about how we dressed and, you know, there were a lot more stringent codes between how women in the workplace dress versus men in the workplace. And we were the generation trying to change that.

I feel like, regardless, there’s just a natural evolution that happens so I kind of welcome the perspective. I think, you know, myself even working in a more remote space than I ever have in my work history, it does give you some balance in your life. It gives you a little bit more flexibility, and so I think, you know, I’m really appreciative of the changes that have been happening but I do think there are some differences just in terms of expectations with work.

I know at WI-HER, one of the things that we do is we’re actually doing more and more work with within workplace development. And with that, we do some data analysis within those those environments, and one of the clear patterns we’re seeing, regardless of who we’re working with, is one of the big intergenerational differences is sort of what is a balanced work life? And I think that’s really one of the big things right now.

If you ask someone who’s well, more your age, you tell me, but, you know, your definition might be different than mine, and expectations of what a productive workday might be also could be different. So I think those are some of the challenges we’re trying to unpack now, and, and really, it’s just all about having healthy discussions and and coming up with norms that as a company or work environment we’re all in agreement with.

EK: Yeah, I agree with you. And yeah, when you talk about balance, it looks different for me and for me, another thing that I find very intriguing with work now is for our younger generation, we get into a workspace, we identify challenges, maybe one or two, and you know, we’ll quickly say I am going to be here for this long to put in place maybe these changes. You know, maybe I’m going to maybe put processes for this. I’m going to transform how people do this. And once that is done, you’re thinking ‘I need to go to the next thing.’ And that means maybe sometimes looks like moving for another, maybe a higher role, but also moving into another company to probably, maybe, do the same thing. Like we are thinking that is how we approach work.

But I see for for my aunties, and you know, looking at my parents, they worked in the same place for 20 years. And I was like, what were you doing there? You know, why were you there for 20 years, and they also wind up, ‘Why are you leaving after four years? Why are you leaving after five years?’

So I think that it could be that we are in a rush, but it could be that we see work as that. So I don’t know, do you have any insights on that? Or any thoughts?

SB: I mean, I don’t know that I necessarily have insights per se, but I do understand what you’re talking about because I know, you know, with Generation X—I know when I first came into the workforce, there was also that expectation you found the perfect job, and you stayed there until you retired basically. But even in our generation, that quickly changed, because you know, we’re kind of that, I think of us as that hybrid generation where our education and what got us to the workplace wasn’t necessarily based in technology and the internet and the World Wide Web.

I mean, I laugh when I tell people but I remember the World Wide Web when it was still just text and code. There were no graphics and and people were saying this is going to change the world and I was like, I don’t know this looks pretty boring. But then when it really just exploded and became graphical and usable and really did start changing industry, keeping pace with that change, I think really meant also changing jobs, because your careers were changing, you know, new things are getting developed because of the web. Old jobs were also changing and how they worked in this new way, and so to me, for a lot of us, it didn’t make sense to stay in one place very long because everybody was just going through this tumultuous sort of process and I think with AI, it’s going a lot of the same thing happening again.

EK: We are right there. Right where you were.

SB: I think this is going to be a really right place for us to have good healthy discussions about what were some of the lessons we’ve learned from, you know, the changes that came with the web, and how is that going to be similar to what will happen now with AI?

EK: Yeah, and when you talk about AI and you know, you’re bringing in technology, it brings me to social isolation… What do you think about that in terms of the generational divide, in terms of workspace, you know, the workforce and social isolation and now, technology, having seen that change at that time, but also you know, moved with it, and through to now where we are also where you are, with AI and other technology.

SB: Leave it to Kemmy to always ask the hard questions!

No, I mean, that’s a really good one, because I know at WI-HER a big piece of, of how we work is first and foremost, do no harm, right?

EK: Yeah.

SB: And I think, you know, the beauty with technology is, especially when it’s fresh and new is very exciting, and it seems very promising. I remember the early days of the web, where it was very much the same everybody was talking about. This is going to democratize so many processes and systems. We’re going to see people having access to information in ways they’ve never had before. People are going to be more informed. They’re going to have more power and agency.

And so this was going to be the answer to so many of the world’s problems. And looking back…

EK: Like when I hear you say that, it is just like history is repeating itself? Because that’s exactly what we’re seeing now for AI and other things happening now.

SB: And on one hand, it’s like yes, it brought about a lot of really positive changes and things. But there has been a negative side and I think one of the negatives has been this type of isolation, the growing gaps between the haves and have nots, not with just this whole issue of digital access and literacy. We have these expectations now of people having you know smartphones and mobile money. I mean, even here in Uganda, I’ve been struggling because I’m like I don’t have the mobile pay, and I gotta get with it!

But it’s just, you know, and things keep changing so, so quickly. So as soon as you get set up on one app, it’s like you’re gonna go to another app and yeah, for me, I’m just saying it’s a little exhausting. But, no, it is something where there are hard conversations I think to be had because we have so many systems that haven’t even caught up to the last big change.

You know, we have laws, we have policies, we have things that are about the humanity and making sure that we are not doing harm in the process of gaining all these these benefits. We’re still not quite there. And so even for myself, I just wonder what’s going to happen now with this next, you know, evolution with AI, because there’s still so many things we have yet to grapple with.

EK: Yeah, I think also in line with with technology. For me social isolation just comes, sort of in a family, but it also comes even in the workplace where you, when it’s physical, you meet each other, you interact with someone, you know someone, if, for example, you’re supervising someone or you just meet colleagues, when you meet each other, there’s a certain expectation and grace that comes with maybe deadlines, that comes with creating, that comes with different things.

And yet, when you are, you know, doing things via technology, even family—just managing a family, I don’t imagine marriage, or even siblings,  and things get lost in translation in the tone and how you talk. And so I think that sometimes, we have to be intentional. We have to be intentional to ensure that we’re not isolating people, especially because of their age, and their failure to maybe keep up with technology, or maybe keep up with how we do things, especially, for example, if you have young people, you know, in certain roles and those are the roles that are in charge of maybe engagement or those are the roles that are in charge of, you know, team building.

You have to ensure that you are actively thinking about not isolating people, or even for you know, older people, the older generation, is in charge of setting the pace of how, you know, maybe like, for example, the leadership team to constantly think that oh, we have younger people in the team and how do we think about those. So I think yeah, social isolation is easy–it’s possible for it to happen if there’s no intentionality.

SB: It’s so complex because I know this is another area that for me has been interesting when we’ve been doing some of our workforce development and capacity building work, where we’re seeing in the data that this is another issue that really cuts across the generational divide, so to speak.

Because too, I think, we’re defining it differently. We’ve got younger generations really looking at mental health issues in a very serious way. They’re bringing it to the workplace and they’re saying let’s talk about it. You have, maybe, older generations that are more reticent, they’re not quite comfortable, or they may not yet see it as a true issue, which is a problem. But, it’s an important one.

I think, you know, the other thing I would love to see us talking more about is is the actual health cost to being so much online as well. Because one of the things when we’re communicating like this and I love being here in person with you, Kemmy, is we are exchanging energy. We have light from the room. We actually have our hormones, like interacting with each other. There are physical changes happening in our bodies, because we’re right next to each other talking. And you don’t get that same experience and health benefits when it’s a remote conversation.

I just think there’s things we’re not even yet asking ourselves about what is the cost to everything being remote, and it’s not that it means we shouldn’t be, but that we need to just be more intentional, and what’s the right balance and how we make this tool of technology work for us.

EK: And the change that is happening. It is also, I know that, for example, in the US or in Europe, there are distances between how families maybe live, which may not necessarily be the case here in Uganda, because you all come to Kampala and maybe sleep like 20 minutes away, 30 minutes away.

But also some siblings leave the country, and some people’s family members live far. Then you would just not be able to, to maybe speak with your grandparents because they’re not–they can’t manage technology. Or, even the younger people are not able to speak to the older ones because of just a preference of what technology works for them. And so that causes a divide.

Also, in our interventions, we apply our methodology, iDARE, to just understand those issues as well in the communities and ensure that people are not being left out of services because of age. So I think they are measures that can be taken in place and that will take me to our final question: What can we do to ensure that the intergenerational knowledge sharing is happening, that issues–and we just picked out social isolation, that doesn’t mean that that’s the only issue that comes from a generational divide in the workforce or in the communities. That is the only issue we picked to talk about. But what can we do? What can be done? What approaches, what tools, what are your thoughts on what can be done to ensure that we are advancing our development outcomes? And we’re also advancing the workforce together, and not leaving anyone out…

SB: Well, one of the first things that can be done is I can ask you that question, and I can listen. What do you think are some of the things that we can do?

EK: OK. Interesting. So for me, I think it’s being proactive. I think that for the younger generation, we need to be aware that there are things we don’t know and that there are things that have happened, that we can learn, and so we come with that proactiveness and the reason I’m saying praoactive, because it’s easy for you to know that you don’t know and just sit back and be like, Yeah, I’ll google, I don’t know. Just here they are. But being proactive in the sense, that you know, read, but also set up meetings like I will come to your calendar and say, you know, Sandra, ‘you have been doing communications for a long time. I’m having this challenge. Can you speak about that?’ You know, set up those meetings, look up someone on LinkedIn, reach out.

Be proactive about that learning and unlearning. And then I think that for the older generation, it would be the same proactiveness where there are things that we could help with, that—I think there should be humility on both sides, but proactiveness in terms of hey, I have been doing communications for a very long time, but there’s this challenge. I have to communicate, you know, you have to communicate for WI-HER staff and you know, a big chunk of people who are young and you’re like, yo, Kemmy, what do you think we can—how do you think we can do this? So that level of proactiveness is one of the things that I definitely think, where you use tools, you use peer assists like I’ve talked about.

We have a book club at WI-HER, that I think is very interesting because when we come with—when we’re discussing a book, because of that difference in not just even in generations, but even where we stay, I find that it’s very interesting that someone will share something and you’re like, that’s your reality is different from my reality. But that could be something that we can discuss, and my thoughts or my experiences can help you so that, you know, approach the existing platforms with that in mind, that there’s something to learn from someone that’s older than you and you have something to teach.

SB: Now, wise words, and I do I love your focus on intentionality, because I think that’s just really the key part, that we just have to be super intentional about wanting to learn from each other. And you know, one of the things that I love that you didn’t yet mention was mentorships. But they can go both ways. I think we usually think it’s about a more experienced career person mentoring someone just entering, right?

It can really be the other way where you can help me understand some of the new technology or get up to speed with some of the lingo. Language also is changing at micro speed.

EK: And the platforms!

SB: And how to talk about it. Everyone jokes about it, but there’s terminologies changing every day and, and sometimes, you know, I’ll be the first to admit we say, you know, I’ll say something that’s not quite appropriate, not realizing that this is not actually the terminology anymore. So welcome, you know, someone else saying hey, actually, this is the better way to say this.

So, I think there are definitely ways that we can keep working on this. You know, the other thing I’ll add is, within programs in hiring, there’s a lot of space there to support career development and to support bringing in those new perspectives and voices of different generations. Even if you have a position where one of our clients, for example, is asking for so many years of experience, sometimes there’s room to actually negotiate that or to bring in some kind of a transition where you have someone come in and the expectation is that in a year, once they’ve been mentored a little bit in this position, they will take over.

So I think there are ways we can definitely think creatively about how to change some of the systems that we’re working in as well that sometimes confine us to even being allowed to do this in ways that we want to, so we just gotta keep these conversations going.

EK: I think, generally approach life with that in mind, because many times we’re thinking all girls—and not to say that those are not isolated girls and women and you know, all these other issues surrounding gender, and age is usually forgotten. So I think that that level of intentionality I like the idea of hiring, and it’s brilliant. Thank you. I will now close the conversation.

SB: I was gonna say we could keep going on this topic forever.

EK: I know! But we are now going to close the conversation and now open it up to anyone who’s watching. If you have any comments, any thoughts, please share them in in our comment section and continue to engage with the WI-HER pages. We welcome your input, we welcome your thoughts. If you have anything that you have applied in your work space that you think we can learn from or anyone who’s watching can learn from, please share it. Thank you very much. And that is it for today.

SB: Yes. Thank you Kemmy. Thank you everyone for listening.

EK: Oh, and thank you, Sandra. It’s very good to catch you when you are in Uganda for this conversation. Thank you very much.

SB: Thank you.